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Bar Owners Surprised That Guns Now Allowed in Taverns Save Email Print
Posted: 10:17 PM Jun 8, 2008
Last Updated: 10:17 PM Jun 8, 2008

A | A | A

LAWRENCE, Kan. (AP) _ Some bar owners are being caught by surprise by a 2007 law change that allows concealed-carry permit holders to bring loaded guns into drinking establishments.

Lawmakers made changes to the original 2006 law last year, removing language that flatly banned permit holders from bringing firearms into bars.

But few members of the hospitality industry were aware of the change, or the fact they may have been serving armed customers for a year.

Bar owners wanting to keep guns out of their businesses must post a sign saying the weapons aren't allowed.

The law still makes it illegal for permit holders to possess a weapon when their blood alcohol level is greater that 0.08 percent, the same as drunk driving. Also, people without a permit still can't carry a gun into a bar.

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Posted by: T Location: KS on Jun 10, 2008 at 03:39 PM
If you are not drinking then there is no problem with a LEGALLY armed person being in a bar. You think the drunk thugs really care about a damn sign?? Think! people think!

Posted by: Jon on Jun 10, 2008 at 06:14 AM
Whip de do. I got an idea: Let's punish the idiots who shoot people in bars and leave those who don't alone. I've got a CHL and while I don't frequent bars for drinking armed i may enter armed to get a burger from the grill, etc. If I'm carrying I don't imbibe, which is the way the vast majority of CHL's do.

Posted by: Robert T Location: San Jacinto CA on Jun 10, 2008 at 03:59 AM
Luby's massacre Google this and see what you think about carry in a bar or resutrante

Posted by: Robert Williams Location: westmoreland on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:20 PM
I have a conceal,cary permit and I think a bar is not a place to carry a handgun. Especially if you are dring alcohol.

Posted by: Jim Location: Topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:19 PM
Any concealed handgun permit holder knows, through taking the course, that they are not allowed to carry in any business that does more than 51% of their business dealing in alcoholic beverages. Therefore these businesses are not required to post the sign. The only businesses that must post the sign are those that just plain don't want firearms on their property. Don't want law abiding people to be able to defend themselves in an emergency, in other words. The only place that mass shootings have taken place have been so called "gun free zones".

Posted by: Tim Location: Topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:18 PM
Where is the Poll that Ralph said was here? Too worried about the outcome?

Posted by: logan Location: topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:15 PM
unlawful carry results in up 1000 fine and 2 year suspension of privileges. Stay up to date on your rights at WWW.KSAG.ORG then click on Conceal Carry. These are now your rights, dont lose them because you were ignorant of the law.

Posted by: Tim Location: Topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:15 PM
As a Concealed Handgun Permit Holder : - I have a KS state carry permit issued by the Kansas Attorney General. - I have passed state and federal background checks for violent crimes, mental illness and chemical dependency. - I have received training in the law of self-defense and have passed a handgun qualification exercise. - I am at least 21 years of age. What do you bar ownersknow about their other customers? A "No Guns Allowed" sign announces loud and clear that criminals will have defenseless victims in that establishment. I choose not to be one and take my business elsewhere.

Posted by: Vincent Location: Manhattan, KS on Jun 9, 2008 at 05:21 PM
The law was changed because many excellent restaurants fell into the category of a "bar" because of alcohol sales with their meals. So now it's legal for a concealed carry licensee to have their weapon while spending money at local restaurants, concealed is concealed. Research the Kansas requirements for a license: NO felony convictions, domestic violence record, history of mental illness or drug abuse. Submit to a background check and have their fingerprints submitted to the KBI and pass a written test with 8 hours of mandated training after paying up to $300 in fees just to submit their applications. How many of the other "bar" patrons can owners of these establishments say that about? Don't forget that the signs referred to only apply to law abiding licensed patrons. Gang bangers, drug abusers and the mentally ill/drunks or other criminals elements don't have to pay any attention to the signs because its not illegal for them to violate the sign. Now who should you be worried about?

Posted by: scott Location: Kansas City on Jun 9, 2008 at 02:25 PM
Well it only took you 11 months to report on the subject not a bad response time. With Guns....... .. ...We Are 'Citizens'. Without Them........ We Are 'Subjects'. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Posted by: Chuck Location: Topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 12:57 PM
George - that's awesome how your dog has a gun. Seriously.

Posted by: Rob Location: Topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 12:20 PM
Whats the penalty for carrying a firearm into a bar or across one of those signs?

Posted by: Larry Location: Liberal. KS on Jun 9, 2008 at 11:29 AM
Anyone who is out and about in the evenings will eventually encounter a situation where they are in the same area as someone who they would normally avoid. Maybe it's a drunk, or maybe it's an obnoxious guy throwing his "weight" around or a bully-type. I would have stopped going out to dinner in larger cities long ago were it not for the laws allowing me to be armed with a concealed handgun. Motels are also a place where being armed is of value to the law-abiding person. I will not stay at a hotel or motel that restricts my carrying in the restaurant or inside the property. I thwarted an attempted robbery years of myself and my wife ago because I travel with a gun. The polide arrived after the perpetrators were long gone. To those who would deprive me of my right to self-defense I say this: "Do not let your own disinterest or lack of self-value prevent me from having the ability to fend ofF an attack on me or my family."

Posted by: BBinKC Location: Shawnee on Jun 9, 2008 at 10:02 AM
Not exactly timely news here is it? What are you trying to stir up? If they were discussing the legislation now it might be worth talking about but it passed a year ago and there hasn't been a problem as a result of it yet. To get a Kansas CCW you have to have a clear criminal background, spend a good amount of time and money in a training class, prove proficiency with your handgun, have no history of severe mental illness, and pay a hefty application fee. In short the people with CCW permits are responsible so it should be no surprise to anyone that there have been no problems with letting them carry in bars. It's people that have a handgun with them that don't have a permit you have to worry about .

Posted by: logan Location: topeka on Jun 9, 2008 at 09:52 AM
I carry to make Topeka a safer place. thanks to the media for posting a picture with this story that has a knife, bbgun, brass knuckles, and some guns. Making them all appear to be in the criminal category. Do some more research with your stories. House bill 2528 removed limitations as to cch. Schools, bars, churches, hospitals and athletic events must now have the appropriate signage to prevent carry on the grounds, they may not prosecute for unlawful carry if no signage is present. Employers are no longer allowed to prevent employees from storing guns in their vehicles as well. Business owners should belfattered that we carry in their establishments, providing free security for us and others around us. I do not spend my money where my gun is not allowed, and all other CCH holders should strongly follow that code as well. That means I dont go to the movies anymore, I dont go to the mall. I carry to make my surroundings safer, simple as that!

Posted by: Lee Location: Saint George on Jun 9, 2008 at 09:46 AM
Why would the bar owners be concerned now? As the article states bar owners have been serving armed patrons for over a year now and there has not been one single bad incident in the entire state. Now WIBW acts like this is a huge problem. There is no problem; WIBW is showing their true anti gun colors by trying to create a problem out of nothing. Great work guys, there is real news and real problems to report out there. By the way Concealed Carry in Kansas has gone just like it has in 48 other states. Flawlessly smooth, no shoot outs in the streets, no blood in the gutters. Just law abiding adult citizens taking responsibility for their and their families welfare.

Posted by: M&M Location: The Great Plains on Jun 9, 2008 at 08:14 AM
Originally the law said a CCH permit holder could not go into an establishment that received over 50% of its revenue from alcohol sales. Well who knows where that applies and where it does not? So they changed the law. With that said, I don't believe guns and alcohol mix. But there are other reasons to go to places that serve alcohol. Such as restaurants who happen to serve alcohol or those places that have live entertainment and serve alcohol. In general I can say most people who have a CCH permit are very reasonable and take their responsibility very seriously. They are not going to do things that might jeopardise their permit or things that might be considered illegal.

Posted by: STEVE Location: EMPORIA on Jun 9, 2008 at 08:08 AM
I'm not sure why any bar owner would want to ban a permit carrying customer at least the bar would be safer.I quess my question is if I'm forced to leave my gun in my vechiel and the bar gets robbed and I am harmed in the ordeal would the owner then be responsible for any thing that happens to me or anyone ealse in the bar?

Posted by: James Macklin Location: Wichita,KS on Jun 9, 2008 at 07:41 AM
To correctly state the fact, people without a permit cannot legally carry a concealed weapon anywhere. Citizens who spend their time and money, place their reputation on the line and will follow the law which says they must not be under the influence. Most will choose not to go to a bar at all. But the change in the law which was done by HB 2528 was far more than just "bars." Many cities had decided to thwart the law and passed local laws against any concealed carry anywhere within the city even if a citizen had a state issued permit. Also many churches were aware of the potential for terrorist attacks on religious centers and had asked to be removed from the general ban. I think it is interesting that bar owners are just now learning that they have or may have been serving legally armed citizens legally and discretely concealing a handgun. I do know of several shootings at bars, BUT NONE INVOLVED A LICENSED INDIVIDUAL.

Posted by: Vince Location: Manhattan on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:54 AM
The law was changed because many excellent restaurants fell into the category of a "bar" because of alcohol sales with their meals. So now it's legal for a concealed carry licensee to have their weapon while spending money at local restaurants, concealed is concealed. Research the Kansas requirements for a license: NO felony convictions, domestic violence record, history of mental illness or drug abuse. Submit to a background check and have their fingerprints submitted to the KBI and pass a written test with 8 hours of mandated training after paying up to $300 in fees just to submit their applications. How many of the other "bar" patrons can owners of these establishments say that about? Don't forget that the signs referred to only apply to law abiding licensed patrons. Gang bangers, drug abusers and the mentally ill/drunks or other criminal elements don't have to pay any attention to the signs because its not illegal for them to violate the sign. Now who should you be worried about?

Posted by: George Location: Crawford on Jun 9, 2008 at 06:10 AM
A majority of both legislative houses plus the governor's signature were required to allow guns in bars. A good start, but I wish they'd have gone just a bit further and allowed guns in Courthouses, Statehouses, jails and schools. Everyone knows that if you're in jail you need a gun for protection. They try, convict and lock up all the innocent people in the same jail as the criminals, and most of the criminals that aren't locked up in jail are serving in the legislature or working in law enforcement. A regular guy like me needs every gun he can get his hands on, and so does his wife and kids. I'm outraged that my kids can't take their guns to school. My dog has a gun - there are stray pit bulls roaming the town out to rape her in her own yard. You can never be too safe, especially in a bar full of drunks. Kudos to the Kansas Legislature and Governor, making me proud to carry my guns again, just like 150 years ago. That's what I call progress.

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